What are all the Okinawan styles?

Other styles of Okinawan Karate
Shorin-ryu Man

What are all the Okinawan styles?

Postby Shorin-ryu Man » Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:18 am

Howdy,

How many okinawan styles are there? I am familar with Shorinryu and Issinryu,but can not remember any more.

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Postby Chikara » Thu May 11, 2006 2:39 pm

Goju-ryu and uechi-ryu, Kobayashi-ryu and Matsubayashi-ryu and Okinawan Kenpo

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other Okinawan styles

Postby kaamii » Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:00 pm

Hello all! this is my first post to this forum. I am looking forward to great discussions in the future here.

I wanted to add Kojo-ryu, Ryuei-ryu, Motobu Udundi, Toon-ryu, and Shito-ryu to the list. Shito-ryu is now mainly a Japanese style, but a few early students of Mabuni carry on the older Okinawan version of the style. Also shorinji-ryu and shobayashi shorin-ryu. I guess Ryute would technically be Okinawan since it was developed my Seiyu Oyata, an Okinawan, who was trained by 3 older Okinawans.

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Welcome

Postby Ironman » Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:25 am

Hi Kaamii,

Thanks for the info.

duhwayne

Postby duhwayne » Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:05 am

Hey Kaamii welcome to the list! How many of the styles you listed pre-date the War?

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pre-war styles

Postby kaamii » Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:14 pm

Kojo -ryu was name given to style by Seitoku Higa who formed the organization that Soken sensei was asked to join. inthe 1950's. Before that, the art of just the Kojo (Koshiro or kugusuku in hogen) family style that had been developing for over 200 years by each family member adding on. family had a public dojo for a couple of years in the 70's until the son got cancer and the dojo closed.
Motobu Udundi was name given to the art Chokyu Motobu taught him in honor of his teacher and his family history. The art is a few hundred years old, but was called Gotente. Some believe it is Minamoto family jujitsu from Japan as one prince in this family came down to Okinawa and his son or grandson became the first Okinawan king in Urasoe. This is the art that Matsumura refers to as court style in his letter to his nephew.
Ryuei-ryu as a style did not exist until in 1970's when it was taught outside the family for the first time, but it was practiced for 4 generaions in the family for about 100 years before that though.
PangaiNoon was practiced by Kanbun Uechi and taught before the war, but not formalized into a style until 1954 or56 when kumite drills, new 5 kata, and warm-up drills were added and federation formed under Kanei Uechi. The Uechi-ryu that Toyama, Tomoyose, and Gushi Sensei is essentially still PanGaiNoon as they had been training before this style was formalized.
Kyan Sensei's art is pre-war, but named as Shorinji by his students after the war. Same art, new name.
Kobayashi Shorin-ryu was named before the war by Chibana Sensei i believe in the 1930's.
Of course, Machimura Suidi was pre-war. ACtually formulated by Matsumura about 70 years prior, after return from China and meeting with Chinto.
Toon-ryu and Goju-ryu are both pre-war styles by Miyagi and Kyoda Senseis.
Shito-ryu was a pre-war style formulated in the late 1920's, early 30's.
Oyata Sensei art, Ryute was not formed until after his training with Nakamura sensei whose katas he adopted. this was the 1950's and 60's.
Tatsuo Shimabuku formed Isshin-ryu in the mid-50's, post-war.

That is what I know, but does not mean it is the everything. Perhaps others have more information. and of course, these are only the styles currently known ot the public, i am sure hundreds of family traditions existed before the war but died out or are still unknown.

duhwayne

Postby duhwayne » Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:25 am

Thanks Kaamii. I had heard that Uehara had spent a very short time as a visitor at Soken Sensei's, but that the Udundi stuff for he and the other Motoburyu group had, er, strong influences from their training in Hakkoryu. Of course I haven't seen any Hakkoryu student rolls and could be wrong, but as someone who appears to have spent time studying Okinawan karate history I wondered if you'd heard any similar rumors.

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Uehara and Soken Sensei

Postby kaamii » Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:52 pm

Let me start off by saying that I was not even a thought in my father's head during this time period, the 1950's, and having not been there I do not know the truth. However, I can say that Uehara sensei begin about 10 years after Soken, and according to what I asked Chosei Motobu, Uehara Sensei did not like the blending of styles, and as his teacher's only student and successor (also not a Motobu family member) he felt it important for him to preserve Chokyu sensei's teachings. This is why Uehara dismissed many of his students, b/c they blended in with their karate styles. He did form two katas for the system however.
So to answer your question, yes they knew each other and may have visited together as they both were part of the Okinawan Kobudo Association for a brief period in the 1950's. but I think more on a social basis to talk and less for one to train under the other.

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Soo Haku ryu?

Postby Chikara » Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:56 am

Has anyone else heard of this style? The reason I ask is back in 1977 Kise took me over to Tamaia Sensei's house for a visit. During our talk Tamaia Sensei told me of learning his art in Shanghai. He called it Soo Haku Ryu. In case you don't know who I am talking about the best I can give is he is pictured in what I think was a Black Belt Mag article sitting with Kise and Kuda standing on each side of him. Sandoval is also in the pictures with Kise through out the article. Anyone know which one it was? And what does anyone of know of Tamaia. I am just being curious?
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Postby ronaldo » Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:06 pm

Hi Kaamii,
I know this subject has not been posted to in awhile but was curious about the names of the 2 kata that Uehara formed and did anyone have an influence on the names of the two kata? Alot of great info on this subject Thank You!

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Motobu Udundi Kata

Postby kaamii » Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:47 pm

Ronaldo,

Sorry it took me soo long to reply. I have had the opportunity to translate a little more material on the subject, talk with Chosei Motobu, and get a copy of Seikichi Uehara's book "Bu no Mai" since my last post on this subject.
I was wrong, there are 5 basic kata Motote 1-5. They are based on the sanchin kata but lack the tension breathing. Breathing is natural and Uehara Sensei used it to warm-up and stretch the ligaments along with his stretching/breathing training set called Tinu Mutu. Of course the name is the first kanji of Motobu, "Moto" and the kanji for hand, "te". I have seen him and his students doing another kata on video, Kassen Go (5). Kassen means "battle". Since this is number 5, I believe that he may have developed Kassen 1-4 as well.
In the mid 1970's, Kanei Uechi , son of Uechi-ryu founder Kanbun Uechi, went around with Shigeru Takamiyagi to see all the headmasters of each prominent Okinawan style to include a bio of each one and their style in the book now known as the Uechi big blue book or Uechi-ryu bible. It is called this because it gives Kanei's history of their style, him performing and discussing every kihon technique, step by step photos of him doing all the kata and set bunkai of the system, all the kumite drills, history of Okinawan karate based off his journey back to Fukien China, a history of kobudo, this giant biography section of all the Okianwan styles, and then a final section on current members of his own organization worldwide. It is an oversized book w/ over 1300 pages weighing about 30+ lbs.
He talked with Uehara Sensei of Motobu Udundi about his curriculum and here is what he sound, "(#1)Motodi 1, (#2)Motodi 2, (#3)Motodi 3, (#4)Motodi 4, (#5) Motodi 5, then (#6)Te, (#7) Tuidigaeshi, (#8) Uragaeshi, after that (#9) Kassendi, (#10) Kassenpo, (#11)Ogamidi, (#12) Kaeshidi, (#13) Karamidi, (#14) Nukidi, (#15) Nagedi." I originally thought that all of them were kata, but only the first five are and as you can see in #9 Kassendi, he must have Kassendi 1-5 from that technique. After Motodi Go, all the things listed are techniques in advancing order. There may be more advanced kata that he developed, I simply don't know.
Uehara sad in his book that you learn tuidi, basic joint lock and manipulation, then move into the 3 basic "hands" Motobu Udundi which chosei Motobu taught us. Oshidi : "pushing hands", Koneridi: "twisting hands", and "Ogamidi: "praying hands". When all your techniques flow with perfection, you have achieved the final level of Bu no Mai, "Martial Dance". In the old days there were no kata, but the techniques were all hidden and organized into a traditional dance, Ajikata no Mekata which means "Dance of the Lords".
I think that Uehara simply made the kata based on the fact that most people visiting him were used to kata, so he did it to satisfy them and add extra exercise. most feel that the Sanchin like katas of Motote were influenced his exposure to Chojun Miyagi, founder of Goju-ryu, when Uehara's teacher Chokyu Motobu was in the toudi Kenyukai Research group with him. I have a different take. Chosei Motobu, the 13th and sadly last headmaster of the art, states that his uncle, Uehara's teacher, Chokyu Motobu had learned not only from his father but also Matsumura on the grounds of Shuri Castle wer he grew up. It is known that Matsumura had a Sanchin kata that we no longer practice. IT IS ONLY MY PERSONAL SPECULATION, but I feel that this is the source of the Sanchin in the Motote kata as it lacks the dynamic tension, and relies on natural breathing and flowing movement like we emphasis. JUST MY THOUGHTS THOUGH. Like I stated at the beginning, I was wrong before, and it is bound to happen again:)
Hope that helps.

Kaamii

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So Haku-ryu

Postby kaamii » Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:56 pm

Sensei,

Just looking at your old post and selling my old VHS tapes, I finaly put 2 and 2 together. Tamaya's art was called So Haku-ryu, and in the article you stated that Sandoval was throughout it. Sandoval teaches kata as does Chandler , who Sandoval taught, that Yabiku does not. They are So Hakutsuru, Tan Hakutsuru, San He, and Ryuken Sanchin (Chandler calls the first two So Hakutsuru Sho and So Hakutsuru Dai). They say they are from the So Hakutsuru lineage, a mountain crane style, that Soken Sensei learned while in Argentina from a China man, and Soken only taught a few students these kata. :roll: Could these kata be from So Haku-ryu (Tamaya to Kise or Sandoval to Chandler)? :wink: Hmmmm.

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Postby ronaldo » Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:40 pm

Hi Walt,
thank you very much, this is very interesting i would love to hear more!!!!


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